tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post4045066854966150363..comments2024-03-13T06:57:54.343+00:00Comments on Obnoxio The Clown: Why are these people dying?Obnoxio The Clownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12012089552153702526noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-27159599796762843902013-01-18T17:12:25.803+00:002013-01-18T17:12:25.803+00:00What an ignorant and idiotic analysisWhat an ignorant and idiotic analysisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-50866402110433435462013-01-18T17:12:09.152+00:002013-01-18T17:12:09.152+00:00To be honest, I find this post overly simplistic. ...To be honest, I find this post overly simplistic. These are horrible events. Trying to pretend that somehow "lefties" should personally be doing something about it is absurd. Maybe many do. It's a big problem though and a few individuals doing nice things is unlikely to solve it. I do think that maybe you were making an interesting point in your second to last paragraph and it is similar to where I think the problem lies. All the discussion about libertarianism, socialism, right-wing, left-wing generally misses the point that we are (Europe and the US) largely social democracies (whether we like to admit it or not) and the real debate should be about what this means. What should we as a society be doing to develop our economies, to provide healthcare, to provide schools, etc and how should we be helping those who are, for whatever reason, unable to support themselves. If we could have an honest debate about this we may start to solve some of these problems (or at least come close).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-52107980612571028532013-01-17T21:10:35.667+00:002013-01-17T21:10:35.667+00:00These deaths are not due to a simple 'they cut...These deaths are not due to a simple 'they cut my benefits so I must top meself' reaction.<br /><br />I'd bet that in all cases they are the last straw/tip of the iceberg of a whole slew of problems - each created or made much worse BY THE STATE. <br /><br />Once the welfare state gets its claws into you, you're on a very slippery slope. People who work in such services are mostly normal, decent people...until they get behind their desks. They turn into sociopathic service-user haters, bereft of all compassion and notions of 'equality, respect, anti this that the other...'<br /><br />Anyone who's been on benefits will tell you that the whole monstrous state machine ranges against you. <br /><br />You may be in pain, you may be a victim of anti social behaviour, your dearly loved dad maybe dying, your roof may be caving in, your boiler may have packed up, your arthritis becomes unbearably painful as your diet deteriorates die to lack of money, you may have just had your bank account hacked into and soaked, the tax man's chasing you even though you owe nothing, the TV licensing thugs have just sent round the 4th collector who demands to search your house even though you don't have a tv, ATOS have just told you work-or-else!<br /><br />... and your neighbours are complaining about the state of your garden because you can't get out there due to the pain you're in, your family and friends get compassion fatigue because they are tired of your illness, tired of the endless fob offs you keep telling them about, sick to death of suggesting how to deal with all the shit that is, in any reasonable person's book, simply overwhelming<br /><br />....on top of which you'll certainly get endless runarounds from all the public services and other 'support' agencies that are apparently set up to help - but in fact are just there to profit from your misery, send glowing tick box returns to Whitehall, and keep others like you in jobs.<br /><br />Oh, and you are demoted to the status of non-human being (variously known as 'a scrounger', 'malingerer', 'no-hoper', 'waster', ‘victim’ etc). You have no Human Rights or dignity once your public services and your community services etc dump you in this position. Forget 'empowerment', forget hope, forget respect, forget that you ever had a decent human existence. Arbeit macht frei! Vork or starve. You vill be severely punished if you cannot vork!<br /><br />That's a reasonable picture of life on benefits.<br /><br />Then you get the letter that says 'Fuck off you pathetic worm, we're lopping £20 a week off your benefit. Hahahaha!'<br /><br />You begin stockpiling cheap aspirin and paracetomol from Lidl. And wistfully cast your eyes over all the examples of great work you did and got paid well for when you were a real human being, before the arthritis got so bad, or the bastard doctor wrote you off because of the MS due to their being no specialist treatment and support in your area, before you had what you thought was a simple concussion in that car accident which turned out to be a nightmare of rumbling blood clots on the brain....etc etc. <br /><br />Then one day you wake up and, thoroughly crushed at every turn by a system that HATES you for no reason you can see, and does all it can to make your life even more of a hell... and you decide to go back to sleep forever, so glad to get out of a world that is deeply dysfunctional and full of hateful sadists whose self-appointed role in life is to make you know, REALLY KNOW, that you're worthless.<br /><br />Coroners never tell this side of the story though. <br /><br />It's always 'balance of his mind was disturbed', ‘benefits cut may have had an influence’ etc etc. <br /><br />That's called 'blame the victim' and the UK just loves to blame victims, especially if they have the audacity to expect a bit of help from the system they slogged hard to pay into when they could.<br /><br />Does this explain a bit more?<br />samnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-28954903369001604972013-01-08T12:30:06.471+00:002013-01-08T12:30:06.471+00:00Anonymous: "im gradually getting weaker from ...Anonymous: "im gradually getting weaker from lack of good nurritious food"<br /><br />I can believe that. <br /><br />If you want to email me details, I'd like to know more.<br /><br />obnoxio [at] hotmail [dot] comObnoxio The Clownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12012089552153702526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-49195638657929960882013-01-07T15:18:27.764+00:002013-01-07T15:18:27.764+00:00Libertarianism is your shorthand for soft soaping ...<i><br />Libertarianism is your shorthand for soft soaping everyone you are liar and purveyor of half truths and most people see through your lies like crystal go peddle your lies some where else.</i><br /><br />What, like his own blog, you mean?<br /><br />Obo, you are attracting the cretins again...Longriderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139120804208136012noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-26623844739921972762013-01-06T18:33:39.910+00:002013-01-06T18:33:39.910+00:00If people are getting to that stage where what the...If people are getting to that stage where what the government were providing, is the only thing that is stopping them from committing suicide, I think there is a wider issue above and beyond benefits being withdrawn. At what point should the state stop supporting people? They cant and should not support everyone for everything. What did these people do before Labour helped the welfare budget explode? It wasn't the governments fault way back then, so why should it be the case now?<br /><br />www.geordiebore.org.ukgeordieborehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03841074738089787457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-47324456956776246442013-01-05T23:16:27.520+00:002013-01-05T23:16:27.520+00:00Considering how many millions of people are on ben...Considering how many millions of people are on benefits there are inevitably going to be many cases of people killing themselves, regardless of if the State is being 'mean' or not.<br /><br />These sad cases prove nothing except that leftists love to indulge in moral blackmail.Cingoldbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14512362800274380329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-91083986730833608572013-01-05T04:39:14.239+00:002013-01-05T04:39:14.239+00:00"peddle your lies somewhere else?" It&#..."peddle your lies somewhere else?" It's his own blog - this IS the somewhere else. What you really mean is "shut up." CTRYKWBTFUATW.<br /><br />Yankee Stays Homenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-3440456161633816302013-01-04T22:25:20.662+00:002013-01-04T22:25:20.662+00:00This is an interesting argument. If the moral decl...This is an interesting argument. If the moral decline in society you hint at really does exist (outside these specific issues, which i'm skeptical about), I'm not sure if it is state support that has caused it.<br /><br />I mean sure some people may have the view that the state are taking responsibility for care so they don't have to (which I think the article implies). But would people really be caring enough to take some responsibility for these vulnerable individuals' wellbeing without the state?<br /><br />If not what would have been different without this state or charity help? Would more individuals step forward to help? <br /><br />Another aside issue I'm curious about is what it is about the individualised care you refer to that would be superior? Will Chambersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-45694700466915592872013-01-04T21:03:51.059+00:002013-01-04T21:03:51.059+00:00"benefits are taxed as are wages"
Not t..."benefits are taxed as are wages"<br /><br />Not the sharpest tool in the box, are you?<br /><br />"paying what is due"<br /><br />Defined how?<br /><br />"go peddle your lies some where else"<br /><br />Err...it's his blog. He can peddle whaterver he likes on it.Gun Criminalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-71802095190019565692013-01-04T17:27:29.169+00:002013-01-04T17:27:29.169+00:00If you're going to weigh corpses, you need to ...If you're going to weigh corpses, you need to include the suicides who were bankrupted by the tax authorities. I believe 10,000 bankruptcies a year just from unpaid council tax.<br /><br />You also need to compare with the pre-coalition suicide rate among the unemployed and benefit-claiming. One reason for chronic unemployment is mental illness.<br /><br />Peter Risdonhttp://www.peterrisdon.com/blog/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-7021401791961538902013-01-04T15:08:35.137+00:002013-01-04T15:08:35.137+00:00Hmm this is the very first time I have ever commen...Hmm this is the very first time I have ever commented on anything like this.......I am personally very close to being in one or more of the situations quoted above, im ill with no prospect of recovery, 'my sort' are constantly being villified in the popular press as being a 'scrounger' I have no family and very very few friends, I have no debts, dont drink dont smoke dont go out, I dont have a flat screen tv etc, my food budget is £5 per week, im gradually getting weaker from lack of good nurritious food, all I have is the benefit from the government, and thats being squeezed and of course as prices rise less money is available, I have noone else to rely on, I might as well be dead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-25698974796025547602013-01-04T12:18:57.209+00:002013-01-04T12:18:57.209+00:00Heavy Hedonist, if that's the case, what about...Heavy Hedonist, if that's the case, what about all the charities and quangos that ALSO feed off our taxes to handle this kind of thing? It's quite clear that if this kind of thing happens then despite us being taxed to buggery, the system isn't fit for purpose.Obnoxio The Clownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12012089552153702526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-58913579389898961992013-01-04T12:17:40.526+00:002013-01-04T12:17:40.526+00:00"Finally stop pretending that you give a damn..."Finally stop pretending that you give a damn about anyone but yourselves I would of had more respect for you if you where more honest.<br /><br />Libertarianism is your shorthand for soft soaping everyone you are liar and purveyor of half truths and most people see through your lies like crystal go peddle your lies some where else."<br /><br />Right. Thanks for your valuable contribution about MY ethics while you sanction extortion and war.Obnoxio The Clownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12012089552153702526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-40081507268044546932013-01-04T11:35:59.304+00:002013-01-04T11:35:59.304+00:00If you object to Starbucks not paying more corpora...If you object to Starbucks not paying more corporation tax, just buy shares and give 40% of the dividends to the government. It amounts to the same thing.<br /><br />On the specific point, this idea of suicide as an inevitable consequence of benefit changes is something quite recent and so every suicide is going to be exploited to make a political point usually that those cruel ATOS people shouldn't be assessing anyone at all because some vulnerable people kill themselves after reassessment. The obvious danger here is that this feeds the idea that suicide is somehow the thing to do to advance the cause, and may well be a factor in persauding people to take that action. It would be simplistic to suggest it's a primary causal factor, but it's certainly leading to an expectation that it's a possible and perhaps noble outcome ("my death may save someone else from the same fate").<br /><br />And why is it needed? Because in the minds of the activists, this is being played out as good versus evil. The "evil" of the Tories MUST necessarily end in death. This is not for them an argument about whether screening to determine whether anyone can be moved from one benefit to another is justified and how it should be done, it is a life and death struggle to stop the "evil Tories" killing disabled people.<br /><br />I saw last night on twitter a claim that someone being asked to make a phone call was "abuse" on the basis of the "stress" it caused. Honestly, if people are at that level of anguish, suggesting that suicide is an expected outcome is somewhere beyond irresponsible.<br /><br />@shoottheduckshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16668517253678186947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-24896342748227238012013-01-04T08:53:53.636+00:002013-01-04T08:53:53.636+00:00anon: "Conservative tax avoiding companies su...anon: <i>"Conservative tax avoiding companies such as Starbucks might like to look to themselves and their morals and their Libertarianism in paying what is due rather than again <b>attacking the weaker in society</b> something which is happening far to often."</i><br /><br />I do love the new definition of 'attacking the weaker in society' which means 'objecting to working all the hours God sends to provide them with a better lifestyle than your own'...JuliaMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07844126589712842477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-64000380963452123472013-01-03T23:21:10.833+00:002013-01-03T23:21:10.833+00:00Thinking back over my almost 40 year career in Eng...Thinking back over my almost 40 year career in Engineering, I remember, with great respect, some of the many highly skilled and hard-working folk I have worked with, and for. Out in the workplace, large as life, and forever busy, they include one amputee, one confined to a wheelchair, three who were partially sighted having lost an eye, one who was profoundly deaf, two whose manual dexterity was excellent despite their loss of fingers, one who was epileptic, one with severe inflammatory bowel disease, and several with chronic asthma/bronchitis. It didn't keep them out of the workplace, and most of them were passed fit to drive themselves to and from work (except the epileptic). <br />But what I remember most acutely, was how expert, how indispensable they were, and how the savoured that, revelled in it. Their modest portion of glory.<br />You want people to find happiness? Give them a role, a part to play, a circle of colleagues, and something that they can do to help some other poor distracted bugger.<br /><br />MontyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-15110591248826270522013-01-03T22:03:08.690+00:002013-01-03T22:03:08.690+00:00Sad sad deaths.
But to put it in context, I earn ...Sad sad deaths.<br /><br />But to put it in context, I earn £20K and overall I'm taxed about 60% on my earnings, housing costs are another 25%. So I get to enjoy about 15% of my hard crappy days labour. I get no benefits.<br /><br />Let's put the Wandsworth example to the test. The average council tax benefit is around £500pa, if his housing benefit was cut - well he's living in SW London and it's limited to £15kpa. They get free healthcare but he is incapable of working. He may have got all sorts of benefit on top of that.<br /><br />The bit which actually annoys me is that I work about 10 hours a day,to keep about 35% of my labour.<br /><br />The bloke didn't work at all, and enjoyed 65% of my labour.<br /><br />If I was an unemployed loser I would technically be better off.llareggubnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-69301266914218284552013-01-03T18:27:56.488+00:002013-01-03T18:27:56.488+00:00What is the point of paying national insurance and...What is the point of paying national insurance and income tax. <br /><br />It is a two way street — I pay tax and demand representation National Health Service and Social Security.<br /><br />Simple as that benefits are taxed as are wages so everyone gets, no exceptions none.<br /><br />You argue that everyone has someone to look out for them is mute it doesn't standup to examination as you can see by the amount of homeless people in our major cities, but that is another argument. <br /><br />You stated that if a supposed friend needed £30 pounds you would give them it. To someone like you it is little, but to unemployed people it is vast amount of money which cannot be easily repaid. <br /><br />Conservative tax avoiding companies such as Starbucks might like to look to themselves and their morals and their Libertarianism in paying what is due rather than again attacking the weaker in society something which is happening far to often.<br /><br />Finally stop pretending that you give a damn about anyone but yourselves I would of had more respect for you if you where more honest.<br /><br />Libertarianism is your shorthand for soft soaping everyone you are liar and purveyor of half truths and most people see through your lies like crystal go peddle your lies some where else.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4471993488623327927.post-29309471677423097872013-01-03T15:37:18.818+00:002013-01-03T15:37:18.818+00:00I think you're dealing with cases, here, of pe...I think you're dealing with cases, here, of people whose families were also poor, and perhaps played out from helping over and over. It's easy for those who do not have a chronic illness to ignore the financial side of it-- chronic illness makes you poor even if you start out okay. If you're already on the edge when you become ill, it will make you destitute-- even if your medical costs are paid. <br /> Aging Opheliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14360783709169946256noreply@blogger.com