Sunday, 9 August 2009

Black Dog

When I got to the end of that post, I felt something truly bizarre. I know I have often railed against the government and the political system and talked about 646 lamp posts and so on, but for the first time I seriously wondered whether actual violence would be the only way to really change things.

There just seems to be so much inertia, so many vested interests, so many quangoes, so many ACPO-like empires, so much "third-sector" collusion that has built up over so many years that I can't see any simple way of legislating things better. And I can't see that Cameron is even interested in legislating things better, anyway. And when Labour have their next turn at the levers, it's not going to get better.

It's very soul-destroying. Changing people's minds, one at a time, seems like such a mountain to climb, especially when all you have is the idea of better control over your own life when there's a generous bribe being dished out by the other guys along with a promise that no matter what happens, it's not your fault and you never have to tidy up, either.

But upon reflection, I can only chalk my lunatic idea up to frustration: how could any libertarian suggest the use of actual violence against people in the name of a system that is so firmly opposed to the use of force? So I guess I'm left with that mountain to climb.


Anonymous said...

Well I do agree with you. Even if you are wrong about Cameron and/or we get “good” governments here and there, how long will it not take before the same crap is back again? The only true hope we had was the US and that country is going down faster than the Obamination can eat a couple of burgers. We cannot punish people with severe cuddling and hope they will have an epiphany, won’t happen. So either we relax and live our lives having sort of an existence or we rebel. I do not see any other options. However, the lefties will get there with pitchforks long before we do, so just do what I do, buy vodka and some popcorn and laugh and laugh and laugh…

Oleuanna said...


I may be on a different mountain...but I agree with you.

Ah well ....back to wag the dog

Mitch said...

Well if we dont destroy all nulabs stasi shit then if and when they get back it will be easier for them next time.
All their works need to be burned buried and buried in a lime pit.

Mitch said...

woops sorry froth from mouth dripping on keyboard.

Anonymous said...

The end is nigh..

Pugwashed-out said...

We have yet to see the ZANUCON stasi operate.
No doubt it will continue where ZanuLab leaves off.
Im not holding my breath with the Cameroons. Red tie/Blue tie - whats the diff? Zilch

Michael Fowke said...

As much as I hate Labour, I can't see the Conservatives being much use. Maybe the best thing now, is to forget about your country and just look after number one.

microdave said...

We're going to need a lot of mountains!
I have to say that the last six months or so have changed my outlook and understanding considerably. This is since I discovered blogs such as yours. The trouble is that I'm even more despondent and depressed than I was previously....

I have been looking at some of the former Eastern Block countries. If you consider that it took 40 years or so of oppression & centralised control before they started rioting, to finally bring down the Iron Curtain, it doesn't bode too well for us.

I am resigned at having to leave the country, as I'm not prepared to spend the rest of my life living under a EU/Nu Liebore/Common Purpose utopia. I don't for one moment think that the boy Dave will be any different. The problem is where to go?

Mark Wadsworth said...

I don't think the Tories will be much different and in some ways they will be worse.

"Changing people's minds, one at a time, seems like such a mountain to climb"

It's the only way to do it, unfortunately, such is the amount of spin and self-delusion that goes on.

Have you (or I for that matter) ever convinced anybody that the smoking ban is a shit idea?

How long would it take me to explain to every single one of The Sheeple that house prices are far too high and should be going down, not up?

the man who fell back to bed said...

as for violence... in *some* situations, do the ends not justify the means?

slippery slope I know, but I do think you have a point.

Anonymous said...

Libertarians are (supposedly) opposed to the initiation of force.

Fair enough.

But force *has* been initiated by the state and its agents.

Try not paying your (extorted) taxes for a bit. Really dig your heels in.

Or start manufacturing and selling Crystal Meth. You'll find that (quite legit) market has some interventions that I think we could characterise as the use of force.

Or try and sell fruit and veg in Imperial Measure.

Or print your own currency. Or deliver mail.

AntiCitizenOne said...

Libertarianism is opposition to the INITIATION of force.

We've been subjected to state threats whenever we do practically anything.

Should Slaves worry about the health of their "owners"?

David Davis said...

I think it was Thomas Aquinas who outlined why it is not a sin to commit force against those who start it themselves. He was wrestling with the problem of Christian doctrine versus aggressive pre-capitalist, pre-liberal barbariasm.

Although I am the bloggauleiter of the Libertarian Alliance, and thus ought to cleave to the orthodox libertarian doctrine of general eshewing of force, I do not think it is wrong to retaliate with force against those who initiate it, such as GramscoFabiaNazis.

I also suggest that we _can_ dev=fine as force what they have been trying to do to liberal countries for the past 150 years or so.

Jock Coats said...

I knew there was some hidden message in the Sound of Music...

"Climb Every Mountain...:)

However, wilst I did also long ago come to realize that the attitude of the "angry anarchists" could be explained by the "they started the aggression" line and agree with it somewhat, when it comes to putting it into practice, I have to say that we have to be very careful to avoid attacking the *system* with violence turning into attacking individuals who may or may not be consciously aware of what they are doing and therefore more or less culpable.

For preference, take a look at the mutualist or even agorist way - that what we need to do is build our independent structures from a position inside the totalitarian state so that one day we can really persuade people that we do not need their statist way of doing things because look, we have another, non-violent, way.

I'm rather hoping that the session at the Libertarian Alliance conference on the "urgent need to rediscover delivering public goods with private resources" or whatever it is will address some of this.

There are other things we can think of - such as perhaps that the most important political development could be localism. It's everyone's hot button issue (unless it gives rise to "post-code lotteries" in articifial insemination) and if implemented properly by anyone (which is equally doubtful) could leave it open to promote real libertarian methods and outcomes at more manageable local experimental ways that could then be allowed to spread as they prove themselves (like the "Free State Project" maybe).